Yes, I am leaving

Thank you very much for all the work you have done to help us. How many staff members will be left on the forum starting in November 2017?

1 Like

The @Vaclav and @vorner will be “retired” at the end of October.

We never had dedicated staff for forum. We have now 3 staff member for user support, they look around for topic, where we should help. When they find it, they invite the right colleague to help, advise or answer the question. This workflow will remain in future…

5 Likes

Thanks for your reply. I hope that the user friendly support will remain accessible even after that day. I’m happy to see that even after some time Turris Team fulfill it’s promises and security patches as well as new features are continuously prepared. Still sometimes a direct contact is crucial when community probably will not be able to help (Turris app F-Droid submission) anyone?:blush: For that you just need a manpower.

1 Like

I think this approach works very well.

1 Like

Is it sarcasm, right?

I don’t think this approach really works. It’s better than it was, but in my point of view it’s still bad.
Sometimes they’re replying here, but most of it is related to update, which wasn’t tested enough. For expensive router I’d expect support as Odroid or Emby does on their forums.

For example, where support doesn’t work: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on…
(Bug seems to be here - no reply)
(Most interesting thread is here - no reply)

I was quite suprised that miska replied to me in 3.8.3 RC thread.

Somebody from Turris team said that they’re replying here in their free time, which they’re not paid for it. So why they should be here? It should be part of their job.

In my view it seems that forum isn’t moderated.
Regarding Turris 1.x:

  • Free discussion regarding update 3.8.2. No help there from Turris team. More than 470 posts.
    Community was helping each other. Some information was mention on old forum and some details wasn’t mention in documentation.
  • They asked for feedback for documentation and so on. No reply so far. No improvements.
  • I need to repeat your words, which you said in Czech - “polotovary”. Most new stuff doesn’t work. Where is bug list?

Look here: Should I buy Turris Omnia (only in Czech)?

Regarding Omnia:

  • Why no one from Turris team replied to pull request to LEDE. They asked, how much routers was sold w/o WiFI. And somebody asked here in Czech 2-3 months ago. So Turris team should notice that. Let me find the thread.

Regarding both routers:

  • Slow and sometimes w/o reply in threads related to RC.
  • I didn’t see anywhere videos from Turris Hackathon were released (and you sent me by PM link for OpenWRT packaging from Hackathon)
  • Majordomo is abandoned.
  • They should hurry up to catch LEDE (because we have less packages and for some we need to ask them or compile it)

I have this feeling. Why I can find more information from Turris team in some discussion on other websites like abclinux.cz and why they can’t post it here?

So: We need more information.

For example:

  • Statistics, which are sent from us (I mean from routers) to CZ.NIC will also include, which package we will have installed on routers and with this information they will test these packages to avoid bugs and so on.
  • HaaS wasn’t introduced anywhere and since 1st October there’s beta test.

Issues with pull request:
one pull request (again in Czech) with fix took 6 months to be integrated to TurrisOS
23 days - yesterday or today was finally merged!

3 Likes

No, @Pepe, I think the support team works very well on the forum.
The developers answer very quickly for relevant questions for them.

You have another opinion?

EDIT: @Pepe … support team works good.
But … communication strategy is still tragedy - it’s true
And … acronym PLT (čili polotovar) - it’s true too.
Startup TURRIS is one big corporate company for me!

1 Like

Sorry @Pepe, but that is not fair. We never prommised to support other than our software. Airplay not working? Spotify troubles? How we should help you, we are not Apple, nor Google, nor Spotify to support this topic. We answer, where we can help.

That is not true (but it was), but time is limited, as day has 24h and workday even less.

More replies later, as I need to leave net now.

I need to reply for first paragraph what you said.
Ok. You opened last thread. Great! What about others?

To be fair:
I see some progress and saw that @paja responded to some threads and created issues on Gitlab.
But communication is still bad…

  • RAID disks do not spin down (finally since today is it in Gitlab)
    even answer: ‘Guys, please send us email to tech.support@turris.cz’ would be better than no respond at all.
  • MiniDLNA: hm. I don’t use it on Turris. So let’s skip that. But @commar said that this bug is present since 2.7. What’s wrong with that? Nothing…
  • SFTP and IPv4 port 80 forward opens both port on IPv4 and IPv6:
    Community should help each other, right?
    This probably should be reported to upstream (same with BTRFS on Turris 1.x - from comment in PR for Omnia to LEDE, bcs I’m not sure that they know about it) or atleast say something, please.
  • Regarding Airplay, Homekit. “worked just fine with my previous router. Now it doesn’t work” hm… Wait. What did I change? Yeah router… Maybe it is related to knot? I would be even satisfied with respond like this: “Hello, sorry we didn’t try it. If it doesn’t work try to contact first Spotify or other companies and if you don’t reach solution then you can contact us”

So let’s move to my important point:

  • One guy couldn’t connect to apparently his favorite site, because the site is blocked from your project AmIHacked.
    Who should notice them? I do? I saw one IP from Czech republic, which attacked me and when I noticed that I contacted them via Twitter. Do you think that they responded?
    Since November you couldn’t told him that you’re looking into it or if there’s way how to modify the blacklist or remove it at all.

Anyway thanks for showing us what you want to-do (but also bug list would be great! :slight_smile: Erratatum in documentation is kinda outdated.) and also
I’m looking forward to hearing from you.

// OT: From last night forum is again slow…
// Edit: You’re welcome. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Thanks for the knot-resolver hint; I posted it to that topic.

1 Like

Thanks @Pepe for a sort of support. By the way, that bug (1 )was reported at tech.support@turris.cz as well. But no answer at all.

Ok I feel urge to respond to this. Note that I am no way manager nor support. I am stupid programmer. So don’t take this as official respond, more like my personal one. Also I am kind of sorry to my colleagues as I am going to disclose some less nice things but I would say important for this topic.

So having this out of the way. It’s all over and over again. We are not responding to your topics on forum, some messages on support are weeks without respond from us and merge requests on github are hanging sometimes even for months and of course we are not fixing those bugs fast enough or at all. I am going clear to the point. This is simply all because we don’t have enough man power. Let me tell you how our software team looks currently (ignoring hardware as that part of the team is not visible to you too much). We have currently about twenty people in software team (including support). That doesn’t sounds so bad isn’t it. So let’s take it apart. About a half of those people, including me, are students and are working on part time. One of those people is documentarist who has no time to write documentation most of the time because she is responding to tickets on support. Then we have one person for support and another person that is partly working on support and partly tracks collected data and analysis (also part time employ). Then we have two persons for kernel but they have together just a 0.6 of full time because they have other obligations. Then we have three colleagues working on webs (note that we have a lot of webs and mostly in tragical state and this include Foris). Then two devops (again note that our infrastructure is big because we are doing data collection and distribution and both of these require not trivial server setup). And now if I put rest of people together, accounting for part times, then I am left with just cca 4.5 man power. So we are maintaining Linux distribution, about fifty or so software projects, where about five of them are huge ones and hardware devices with just less then five people in restatement. I would say that it’s miracle that Turris works at all. We are underpowered big time.

The reason why that is, at least as I see it, is because after Turris Omnia release we kind of exploded requiring more and more people. But as some of you know, getting good people is not easy. We have steady flow of new colleagues to our team but that is slow and most of them are students. And at the same time we are loosing some skilled ones as they are leaving for new opportunities. That is common problem in IT. But we have also problems with hiring. To core team we need very uncommon set of skills. There is not much programmers with Linux skill set that includes embedded, packaging and networking. And for most is our coverage just simply overwhelming. So result is that we are gaining less people than we would like and less then we need to fulfill projects and yours needs. So if you have some friends with this skill set or it’s even you then we are hiring and we are hiring even to posts not listed in our jobs list. And of course if you miss some skill then don’t be afraid to apply too we would train you if you are willing. If you are able to help here on forum for example then you can also do it as job and we would be very happy to hire you.

Also to comment that we are responding in free time (not paid), of course that we are paid to respond and we do it in work (we are no way discouraged to do so). Problems is that to really do something we have to also respond in our free time. So if we note that we are responding in our free time it means that we are on top of time payed basically working for free. We are doing this because we believe in project and love it and we hate if you don’t see it the same way. I think that I used it as argument because somebody was overall offensive to me once.

To end on this. I don’t want to sound negative so I want to thank to all community members that are supporting us. This is no way standard and we appreciate it. We are planning to reward most active helpers with something in future (this is not promise, it’s just something that we are discussing). And my own overall target is to make community contributions more easy. I have already proposed, here on forum, few times community managed packages repository and I am still thinking about it. And if you have some ideas how you could contribute more to project without our intervention then please share them. We want to have health community that is helping each other and is part of what this project makes the best thing to work on.

Edit: Just to clarify. I have posted this not because I want you to join Turris team (if you do then nice). But I did it because it seems to me that there is growing displeasure with Turris team in community. And I think that its all because we are not clear about our capabilities. We have limited resources and I just wanted to show you how limited. I think that if you understand what we are able to do and what we just can’t then both sides can be more satisfied.
Although that doesn’t mean that we won’t try to respond to everything relevant here on forum nor that we won’t be responding to support. We want to be better. But it’s process to get us there and of course we appreciate all criticism as that show us the way we should continue and what we should improve.

19 Likes

Uff … this is no good recruitment leaflet! :slight_smile:
I’ll think how I can help you …

But it’s honest and true, which is highly appreciated. :slight_smile:

Man I am developer not people guy, don’t be supprised. I am all for disclosure and I am sure that no sane manager would let this out and I am expecting that I will hear about it on monday.

Highly appretiate this. Thats a serious courage, and I think I can speak of almost all of us, we thank you for dedication, which all you have to the project. I think we already have the same feeling as things propably are, but be honest and true to users with that from you is non-common. In the other hand, I would say we are not typical users here, and we dont want to hear half-way truth, especially when we can see github commits etc.

4 Likes

I appreciate all efforts of you and your team. But for you, you see the people complaining much more than the happy people. I am happy I bought the omnia. My crappy router from my ISP doesn’t do DNSSEC, doesn’t have krack fixes and so on, but thanks to the omnia I do.

2 Likes

To support @justsomeguy’s voice: I’m a proud owner of a Turris Omnia and really appreciate your work!
There are some hardware-topics I’d like to see (for a Turris Omnia v.2 perhaps) like usable SFTP±port for home network usage and fully functional WAVE2-Wifi-card, miniPCIe 2.0, SoC capable of fully utilising named hardware, but for software-part I am completely happy.
Thank you.

And for the critics: if you need more manpower let community devs help you - therefore you do need to have an actively maintained gitlabs/github instance… Those guys will not leave you like common FTEs :wink:

3 Likes

If you lack the manpower to keep the project in a brisker pace, then it is just another argument for merging your forces with LEDE/OpenWRT. If upstream takes care of the base and it fully supports all parts of the router, then you will have more time to focus on additional things which make Turris OS unique (Forris etc.).

We never said that we are not working with Lede/OpenWRT community. We are hosting OpenWRT summit just tomorrow. We are also presenting some of our problems and proposing solutions in one of our presentations there. Also we were attending in previous years.

3 Likes